When popular Charleston restaurant Xiao Bao Biscuit announced in early 2020 that it would expand to Charlotte in Optimist Hall, their third restaurant and first outside of Charleston, we were interested to see how a beloved and popular restaurant would translate in a new city and in a smaller space. After being open for several months, we spoke with owner and chef, Joshua Walker, about how the experience has been and how he scaled down his full service restaurant to fit as a food hall concept, how this location differs from the original, and what guests can expect at the Optimist Hall location. 

Unpretentious Palate: This is your first restaurant outside of Charleston, but also a scaled down version of Xiao Bao Biscuit. How has the opening experience been and how was it scaling down your restaurant to fit in a food hall?
Joshua Walker: It’s been a little bit weird because we’ve had the business for like 10 years in Charleston. So, to kind of put yourself back in that year one mindset has been challenging a little bit for me, to go back there and have some people get it, and then others don’t. It’s like, ‘Oh, man, they have no idea who we are, we definitely have to prove ourselves.” It’s been an interesting experience. Just because something is one way in Charleston doesn’t mean it has to be that exactly in Charlotte. We’ve had to rethink some things and put ourselves back in a different mindset.

UP: How did you decide Charlotte was the right place to expand to?
JW: Optimist Hall ownership sought us out. If you would have asked me if I was going to do a food hall five years ago, I would have probably told you never. That was not in my purview. But, I heard good things about what they did in Atlanta and several chefs I spoke with had a really good experience with them. So when they invited me to go up I was a little skeptical, but after viewing the property and toying with the idea of Charlotte a little bit, I was just really excited. I was like, this will be kind of a fun version to do, take our show on the road. And it’s a little bit easier than doing a full-service restaurant, but it’s also a little bit different.

UP: I’m sure you meet guests who know you from Charleston and others try your food for the first time. Have you figured out how to manage expectations while introducing yourself to first-time diners?
JW: I would never claim to have it figured out. There’s logic and there’s all these things involved. It’s a good exercise, because as we get older, you can’t put yourself in a box and just get comfortable there. To really succeed, you need to get comfortable being uncomfortable. And that’s such a life lesson for people, no matter what you’re doing. 

UP: Xiao Bao Charlotte in Optimist Hall is not an actual clone of Xiao Bao Biscuit in Charleston. What are some of the differences?
JW: There are several things that play a factor in why we are who we are at Optimist Hall. For example, Bao + Broth and The Dumpling Lady are two tenants who have been there for a while. In Charleston, we have dumplings and a lot of times will have bao buns, but at Optimist Hall we don’t offer that since there are places already offering those. At our Optimist Hall location, we focus on the food that you don’t find at many places — stuff that we used to only do on the lunch menu (at our Charleston location) or during the different iterations of our menus. They’re tried-and-true dishes that have become favorites for our guests and ourselves that are on the menu at Optimist Hall. There are also a lot of interesting snacks that we’re going to have on a rotating basis. 

During the pandemic, Van Thomas, our chef at Xiao Bao, helped run our second restaurant TU. We had fun with R&D, focusing on more Asian street foods — a bunch of really delicious food that will make its way on the menu on a rotating basis. He worked on a Korean fried chicken sandwich that is on the menu: double fried, super crispy chicken, papaya salad on a Hawaiian roll. 

We were doing a lot of dishes with the idea that this could be a great Charlotte snack. There’s probably 20 dishes that we developed and earmarked for the Optimist Hall menu. And it’s fun for the kitchen staff to be able to learn and get engaged in all these techniques and keep them excited about their job. We’re putting an emphasis on snacks and changing it up regularly to keep things interesting. 

UP: Xiao Bao Biscuit in Charleston is also about the location, a former gas station. The unique space adds to the experience for guests. How did you bring that experience (alcoves and banquet seating) of the physical space to the Optimist Hall location and make it work for a food hall?
JW: I’m used to small spaces, it’s one of my advantages. I always sketch out spaces before I even talk to architects. I come from a more art design, creative background. It’s just one of the things I do — who knows better than I do what I want the space to be? So it just makes sense that I will sketch out the space, first thing, to get a sense of what I think it could be and try it out in different ways. Then I engage other people and they can make the design better. Collaboration is great. 

My wife and I always do that and have several conversations and get everyone’s feedback. It was fun. I felt like we could get seats in there because we’re not fast casual. I’m not a fast casual person, we’re not a fast casual restaurant. We are in this instance, but I want to bring that vibe that we have seating, that we are a restaurant, and try to create some experience. I want to do some planter boxes to section off this space a little bit more. If someone who is a fan of the restaurant wanted to come in and have a birthday dinner there with eight people, they could do that. I think that would be really fun, a special thing. 

UP: Your staff also adds to the experience. Can you explain how your team takes the extra steps to be stewards of your space and add to guests’ experience like you would see at a restaurant?
JW: It may be annoying to go out to eat with me because I pay attention to all these details that most people don’t pay attention to, but when you do have an experience where it’s just hitting it on all those subtle levels that maybe most people don’t notice, it does make your experiences more fun and better. I love that, because I want to try to make those people that are just as detail-oriented happy. Not everyone needs to see it, but if you do see it and you appreciate it, then I love you. 

UP: Can you explain the menu at Xiao Bao and what guests can expect when visiting?
JW: There’s the classics section — it can be a one-person thing that you could just eat, but can definitely share these dishes too. The snacks section on the menu is really there to encourage people to get one more thing to try. This is food you don’t really see elsewhere, like the fried mochi. Or maybe you grab something to eat then and have leftovers for later, which is never a bad thing. You get a chance to try a couple different things. You could probably get two or three snacks and be totally fine. The sides are rice, papaya salad, or greens. If you’re dealing with a lot of food that has big bold flavors, it’s a nice bite to help reset the palate. 

UP: Are there other big initiatives or ideas that you plan to introduce to the Optimist Hall location?
JW: I want to start working on getting more dessert options on the menu. I want to start doing mango sticky rice and some more classic items with the same idea as with snacks  — something small that you can add to your meal. I get the sense, after a couple weeks open, that some people aren’t familiar with this type of spice, and I want to mitigate that, and introduce it to people. We actually turned down the spice a little in the glass noodle salad because it doesn’t have to be Thai spicy to be good, so we can make it a little less spicy. I think it’ll still be good, but maybe people will be able to appreciate it a little bit more. 

It’s funny, because that’s something that, in year one in Charleston, I struggled with. I was 10 years younger, and I was way more aggressive with spice, but I wanted people to enjoy it. I had to back down a little. It’s trying to hit that balance where people appreciate it. We started stocking a coconut drink. I talked to staff and shared a trick we used in Charleston for years. If anyone is getting blown up from the spice, pop a can open of the coconut milk drink and give it to them. It’ll help, people need a little fattiness to calm the spice down. And it’s just a nice touch to say we know.

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